well, I’ve been here, stressing over a word I—along with most of my countrymen, I’ll wager—have taken for granted for the past, forever…”freedom.” what is “freedom?” try it, it’s not as easy as first it seems, I’m telling you! I asked bruce (the husband) to define it, and he said, “well, if I had REAL FREEDOM, then I wouldn’t have to stop for stop signs or lights (we were in the car driving, at that moment) so there’s no such thing as total freedom.” One thing I realized, listening to him, was that most people seem to identify it by its negatives…no, you can’t yell “fire” in a crowded theatre!

So then we still need a definition—what is it, and where does it end? I’ve been told that my freedom ends at the tip of your nose. What do you think? I think that saying came from the days when many people smoked, but it’s true today as well…as long as you don’t hurt me, you’re pretty well free to do as you please—in this country…which means we're not free to choose whether or not to stop at lights and stop signs. sorry, bruce!

Walt and I saw a story on TV about a town in the  south called Liberty, run by the KKK well that should’ve been a clue—liberty? who do you think the country is run by? the people?  usually, places with pretty names like “the people’s republic” and the “democratic people’s whatever…”  are mighty poetic on the outside, and potentially rotting at the center.…Well, I was wondering, liberty for whom? It made me think about how often we define certain words of this kind according to our viewpoints, while we turn around and take away the freedom of those who disagree with us.  oh, well! that’s only human…part of believing what WE think is, de facto, right—otherwise, why would we believe it? where we get messed up is in having no patience for anyone else’s beliefs…which goes back to how we’re raised. I don’t think jesus ever taught that…I’m thinking about the Christians who want—even expect—the freedom to put the Bible in school libraries, and they talk as if prohibiting it would be evidence of the moral death of our country…But meanwhile, they’ll fight tooth and nail to keep out the Book of Mormon!

this topic has so many little rivers and lakes to explore...…the only freedom I personally could come up with that everyone, anyone, anywhere may have is the freedom to “THINK.” even in prison, you may lie in a meadow of heather by a beautiful mountain stream, and dream and dream...nobody can stop you…that’s POWER!

but I’ve left until the end, a powerful song from the 70s musical SHENANDOAH—which gives us a few things to think about before writing our own thoughts…please read and then join the polylogue:

“Freedom”  from the musical Shenandoah 1975
Music by Gary Geld

Lyrics by Peter Udell

Freedom ain't a state like Maine or Virginia
Freedom ain't across some county line
Freedom is a flame that burns within ya
Freedom's in the state of mind

(Chorus) Freedom, freedom,  Freedom, freedom
Freedom is a flame that burns within ya
Freedom's in the state of mind
Freedom ain't a boat that's leaving without ya
Freedom ain't a place ya float to find
Freedom's in the how ya think about ya
Freedom's in the state of mind
(Chorus) You can't get to freedom by riding on a train
The only way to freedom is right on through your brain

Freedom is a notion sweeping the nation
Freedom is the right of all mankind
Freedom is a body's imagination
Freedom is a state of mind
Freedom, freedom   Freedom, freedom
Freedom is a notion sweeping the nation
Freedom is a body's imagination
Freedom is a full-time occupation
Freedom's in the state of mind

I imagine that last week, our United States must have been in awfully good shape, because our congress and the media, seemed to have nothing better to talk about than Anthony Weiner’s problems. I had no idea who Weiner was and no particular interest, but Ellen seemed outraged by the attacks—on HIM!,   it was SO UNFAIR!! almost all the media was in total frenzy, and I guess I wouldn’t shut up about it, actually-- and so it caught my (cough, cough) attention and interest, like she had a choice!!!

My difficulty with this whole weiner thing is that when I try to think about it, I get so mad, I’m not sure I think very clearly. I will say clearly, and up front: anthony weiner did wrong—he spent time online with several women, not his wife, talking in “inappropriate” ways—as we’ve come to call it in the polite world of political correctness…he also sent pictures, some of which were very compromising…though most of those were more smoke than fire (I saw a few of them.)

but did what he do rise to the level of a loss of career, and sending him home to Brooklyn in disgrace? sorry, I just don’t think so…unless we’re to discover that it’s a pattern of behavior, and another shoe is yet to drop.

i’m thinking, too, there’s a fairness issue…

 Alright, well, consider that I saw a headline this morning that said he has a long past history of being a playboy. That sounds like a pattern of behavior to me. I’ve not heard that accusation before; anywhere…I’m a little wary of that one… I seem to recall that Clinton made it to the end of his second term with Monica Lewinsky under his desk, not on his computer monitor. Ted Kennedy survived for how many years in congress while he went on not just being flirtatious, but being truly and openly adulterous!  Yikes! 

Yeah, I remember back in “the day,” one never knew when ted kennedy's name would pop up again—the affairs with women he barely tried to hide—to the extent that joan lost herself in a bottle; and then he capped it all off with the killing of mary jo kopechne…only a short time after that he decided he'd run for president, and finally-- because of mary jo, I think, the public  called a halt to his upward mobility, but NOT TO HIS SENATE AMBITIONS…and from then, 1973 until 2010 when kennedy died he made himself into a great senator, and, unbelievably, a well-loved figure. this is what I mean by “fairness.” Weiner is being skewered…kennedy killed a girl and became an elder statesmen. nobody had the guts to tell him to go home!

So what is it that Weiner has done to put him beyond the arms of grace? These other guys make Weiner’s “whatever it was” seem almost childish..

Go to the internet and get inundated—both sides of the aisle—going back years and years; congressmen in both houses, enjoying the wages of their power, it would appear…a short list: Dems-- Former Rep. Mel Reynolds, convicted of 12 counts of sexual assault with a 16-year-old. Bill Clinton pardoned him before leaving office; Former Rep. Gerry Studds, censured for sexual relationship with underage male page in 1983. voters returned him to office for six more terms.  Current Rep. Barney Frank hired a male prostitute who ran a prostitution service from Frank’s residence in the 1980s. Only two Democrats in the House of Representatives voted to censure him in 1990. Republicans--Sen. David Vitter, caught up in a Washington escort service scandal, acknowledged his misbehavior and went on to win reelection in 2010;  even larry craig, trolling for sex in public bathrooms—was simply admonished by the senate ethics committee, but finished his term… public bathrooms!!  

on top of these sits the john ensign affair—that started out as an office fling, and grew into an wide ranging ethics scandal, involving several senators, which  threatened to cut short many congressional careers…and spanned several years!

 anthony weiner has been fighting his war for just over a week, and hasn’t met even one of the ladies he’s accused of perverting!! anonymous stupid talk on the net, mostly! it’s nuts! to me, anyway…even the pictures are basically fruit of the loom ads! for pity sakes!!

  Methinks if we could unearth the records, we'd find it was a rare congressman or even president, way back to Washington, who could present himself with pure hands. I think often of my husband’s uncle who held some sort of state office, way back when. His family claims he used to say that if you’re not crooked when you go into politics, you will be when you come out.  But, I have to agree with what you say, here. This much makes no sense-- as common as sexual misbehavior is among these men, I don’t see how Weiner managed to get into so much trouble.

we’re told the unforgiveable problem with weiner is not what he did, but that he lied—so let’s talk about Donald rumsfield and bush the younger, and their “weapons of mass destruction.” what IS the body count currently…and do you really want to put Anthony weiner’s stupid whatever it is/was up against it, or any of the above. further more, I heard someone say in the last day or so, “well, he (weiner) himself, said his actions were inappropriate. therefore he should resign” and you know what I heard, when this person spoke? what I heard was, if Anthony had just continued to lie, he’d have been way better off!! he skewered himself by telling the truth…ain’t that a kick in the head!!?

at the same time, I’m told weiner is not the most popular guy in the house. he’s ambitious, and a firebrand…but, I’ve watched this guy for a few years now, and here’s something you can’t say about a lot of politicians—he’s honest!  yes, he lied about this…he got his hand caught in the cookie jar, and tried to avoid the consequences…there’s something very normal about that, too. anyway, he’s smart, he’s young enough to be idealistic, and he gets the job done, apparently…a poll was conducted in his district. the results: STAY %56   RESIGN:  %32  UNDECIDED: %12. almost 2/3rds of HIS people…support him, and want him to stay and fight it out! being disliked, can be a badge of honor, depending on whose wearing it and why…

Oh boy!  Show me a man or woman anywhere in the public eye who does wrong and then doesn't lie to cover it up.  I think about Nixon and Agnew, Clinton and Kenneth Lay and even Ted Haggard, along with a few closer to home in churches where I've been.  Church leaders are every bit as prone as politicians when it comes to lying.

 I think this does make my point for me—christian or non—first they lie. our most primitive instinct is to try to survive…and that’s one way we do it…it doesn’t make us bad…it makes us normal. and weiner actually caved in much earlier than most…as I said, it seems to be part of the reason he’s being attacked. Charlie rangel has managed to lie and cheat his own constituents for years and years and years, and absolutely refused to quit, even after being censured…

Okay, so in the end,  What do we do about it?  For years I've heard it asked in evangelical circles, even asked it myself on occasion, that if a man is immoral in his gut, how can we trust him to do right and act wisely in official office?  Especially if he is dishonest enough to lie about it.  And what would happen to the size of our congress if we deleted all the men who have cheated on their wives and lied about it? My husband and I saw a bumper sticker the other night that poses one answer: 

Impeach Everybody

at the same time, Weiner along with a few others in congress,  is apparently still young enough to put idealism ahead of compromise, and so some of his colleagues might wish him gone. He will think nothing of making wave after wave after wave, and letting the chips fall where they fall!

So, what do you think? How do you feel about Weiner’s lie? And should he have just left it his little secret? Knowing that his peccadilloes were carried on anonymously and that he never actually met any of the women he spoke to, does that make a difference to you? Should he resign? And what about that 56% of his constituents that support him? Do they count for anything? Finally, when you go to vote for a public servant, how important is his moral character in helping you to make your decision? We would love to hear anything you want to share, pro or con…  E&e

I’m sure it's escaped nobody’s notice that on saturday, may 21, the clock struck 6 p.m., and a funny thing happened…NOTHING…

the end of the world did not happen on saturday, as promised--although the people of Joplin, Missouri may disagree, as they try to clean up from the terrible tornadoes that devastated them yesterday—

I heard about it on the news, didn’t think much about it, and sure enough, didn’t need to…but:

"in new york, retired transportation agency worker robert fitzpatrick was inspired by camping's message to spend over $140,000 of his savings on subway posters and outdoor advertisements warning of the may 21 judgment day. and...

"in recent weeks, dozens of camping's followers had crossed the united states in recreational vehicles emblazoned with the may 21 warning. Volunteers also handed out pamphlets as far away as the philippines, telling people god had left clear signs the world was coming to an end." (reuters)

what i’m wondering—ethel, too, is what your experience of this day has been. did you believe it? what do you think about people like Harold camping, who play to people’s emotions and beliefs? why do they do it? what did you do to prepare for may 21^st? did you at least

pack a  lunch? please, let us hear from you...

brian Williams, on nbc, said, “this is one of those moments you’ll remember where you were when you heard the news…”

I had just turned on my staple, msnbc, and saw the words that always rev up my heart: breaking news. david gregory…uh oh, they only trot him out for the important stuff, who died?!  hey, look, I lived through martin and bobby, jack and Malcolm x…I even watched my  hero, the gipper, Reagan get shot… so, those words are gut punches to me. I heard david say, “we’re just waiting for confirmation now…” for WHAT, FOR WHAT???” “oh, it’s just come in, and it’s official…osama bin laden is dead!”

We were watching "60 Minutes."  They interrupted us too, but I didn't associate it with a death until they outright said it, "Osama Bin Laden is dead." well, you didn’t grow up a tv child, poor thing…a certain sound that presages “special report”, and/or “breaking news”  means something terrible has happened, especially if my soap opera is broken into…that special music says: BRACE YOURSELF!!

for just a few seconds, I think I stopped breathing.

Is that what happened to me?  I know I was stunned-- relieved that the threat of the terrorist was over. But I felt a heaviness, a sadness, a not-too-sure-how-to-feel feeling,  Yikes! Where are we now?  It's like I've always felt about the big bad dictators of the world-- Idi Amin,  Saddam Hussein, Mugabe...  Why doesn't God take them out?  But if He doesn't do it,  is it right for us to do it?  I don’t recall any sadness. I was by myself, and I do remember giddiness and exclaiming out loud which I don’t do when I’m alone, something like “HAH!!!”that must’ve been the totally honest reaction; the one not colored by ‘what should I be feeling?” or ‘does god have a horse in this race? I don’t want him judging me for any horrendous judgments I may make in a weakened state! I’ve wondered, too, where god is in the matter of the idi amin’s and stalin’s and hussein’s, et. al. so often you’ve told me that god has the big picture and he has his reasons; we don’t actually need to understand what they are, we just need to accept them and recognize that god wants the best for us…to me this is a way big stretch, but I accept that YOU accept it, and the fact that you truly do, allows me to understand the concept of faith—you’d need it in spades to understand all that. at the same time you ask “if [God] doesn’t take [the evil dictators] out, does that make it right for us to do it? maybe, it does. you and I have often discussed that when god can’t make the rescue, he’ll often send a helicopter or rowboat: no? ‘course, I don’t think I’ve yet been the avenging helicopter…but whatever it takes, I guess!!
 

but, like you, I wasn’t sure what my reaction was supposed to be…would god get mad at me if I did what my 2^nd inclination was…when the Phillies won the series,FINALLY—the poor phils who in my growing up won precious little, but I loved them just the same—and when that last pitch was thrown, my body, of its own volition, came flying off the sofa to the floor and my arms flew out in supplication…I believe there was a shouted, and rather loud ‘YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS’  that filled the house, and perhaps the neighborhood. that, sort of, was my sense of things here, way down inside, AND YET…and yet…what would god think of my dancing on someone’s grave, no matter the circumstances?

Great question.  I saw it online the next morning-- on that Jewish site you signed me up for-- AISH.  If anybody wants to read the piece, I find it fascinating. Here's the URL: http://www.aish.com/ci/s/When_Evil_Falls.html?utm_source=mimi_aish_com&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Aish_com%3A+Bin%C2%A0Laden%27s+Death%3A+A+Time+to+Celebrate%3F%C2%A0-+May+2%2C+2011&utm_campaign=Aish_com%3A+Bin%C2%A0Laden%27s+Death%3A+A+Time+to+Celebrate%3F%C2%A0-+May+2%2C+2011&utm_term=When+Evil+Falls

I think among the most important lines in that article were these

“in jewish law we celebrate the ability to distinguish between light and darkness. In life we must know what is good and what is evil. Yes, we are commanded to remember that there is evil in the world, and not only are we allowed to celebrate when it is destroyed, we must.”

bin laden teaches us this most important lesson, or at least reminds us, most clearly of its importance…it is very cleansing…and, now, of course, it’s nice to know that god approves…

how ‘bout if it were hitler? would I be weighing and measuring? does god weigh all lives just the same, at least in death? I wonder…I mean to say, once the guy’s down with a bullet in his brain, he’s kind of neutralized, isn’t he? likewise, hitler with a bullet similarly placed, is just as satisfactorily dead…and then he’s not really “HITLER” anymore, is he?,  just “hitler.” 

Interesting way to look at it.

actually I guess that what survives the killing is the mystique, and that’s a little harder to kill…you can’t just kill it; you must decimate it and make it feel as though if it tries to grow a new brain, you’ll kill that, forthwith, and just as brutally…so, we must learn a whole new way to be in order to deal with this new reality of war—i.e., war on our turf. as long as it could be on the other guy’s  turf, we could be philosophical and grown up about it….now they’ve gone and brought the war to us, and we have to learn to live with this reality…

I also saw that article I told you about, where the left-leaning Europeans were more than annoyed at our celebrations at ground zero.  But I noted that the reactons at those commemorations were mixed. There was the jubilant crowd, but also the silent crowd that came and stood and looked and said nothing. Reminded me of the time you took me there to visit about a year after the 9/11 event.  A lot of slow moving around, but almost  no sound at all.  It was eerie. it was extremely weird, and moving…and still, so many tears, and what could one say. a year had past, and the vast quarry was still gaping and filled with workmen, as silent as the onlookers. THERE was the heaviness…still too much sadness to even speak, only to move kind of woodenly around the several block chain link fence protecting the hole from tumbling onlookers, and providing a wall for hanging “missing persons” posters for people that some were actually still looking for—people who’d died in the world trade center; and for flowers and commemorations to brothers and sisters and parents and children whose family had given up looking…oh, man!  But then, Bin Laden was still out there running loose. We had nothing to rejoice about.  And now, do we have a reason to rejoice yet?  Or should we remain silent still?  all of what I’ve just written about ground zero was bin laden’s gift to us…so, you answer your question…should we remain silent? or may we be forgiven for something a little more—I don’t know, more obvious? what do you think?

 it made me do some thinking and I came to realize, you know, that in this war business, we’re newbies, and probably still very naive. think of how young we are as a country, altogether—we have fought amongst ourselves, in the civil war…but, in reality, compared to many of the other nations, we know nothing—we didn’t live through the blitz in London, or the bombings in Dresden, or the rape of Nanking—there are probably an untold number of “growth experiences” that we can thank god for not experiencing.

so now, as a “war novice” what’s my attitude supposed to be? when we cut the head off the enemy snake…am I allowed to gloat a little? or cheer? or would a simple thank god be more appreciated? I don’t know, I sort of don’t feel like a grown up, right now…I want, really, to dance and sing and celebrate…but, just not look like I’m doing those things…so maybe I’ll do them inside and keep a sober face…that might be the ticket, as long as god doesn’t ask too many questions…

Your honesty and openness here are really impressive.  I think whenever one of the Ten Commandments is so violently violated, it should make us sober.  Of course, that's why we were so upset with Bin Laden--he had violated the "thou shalt not kill" commandment repeatedly. well, I can’t quite look at it that way. I can’t measure him by my rules.  his rules incorporate 72 virgins, not 10 commandments. whether muslims follow a  golden rule, I don’t know, and I confess to a woeful ignorance in the matter of the quran. however, the important point, in my mind is that you can’t get mad at a dog for barking, or a cow for mooing. it’s unlikely that bin laden would religiously know any commandments…although, I’d think there’d be a constraint against taking lives in most common religions. and while killing bin laden, likewise, might be thought to violate our commandments, I’m guessing there’s something that covers it, and ends with “thank you, god!”  It was like a way of life for bin Laden. .  We've just begun to think this through and I'm not sure we'll ever find answers that will satisfy us all.  You and I were not responsible for the decision to blow him into eternity. Nor do we have a duty to decide how right that action was--or how wrong.  Or do we?  Is this another place where we need to speak up and be heard?  If so, what shall we say?  if I get to speak up here, I just have one word, since I’ve worked the rest of them out within these paragraphs: YIPPEE!!

we were having a bit of a “conversation” in the car this morning that we’d love to have you add your two cents to…in the news today and yesterday is all this stuff about that pastor, publicity hound,  here in florida--terry jones—and how he burned some Qurans (to what end?) and wound up getting 24 people killed over in Afghanistan—including 7 united nations workers…

my argument, in agreement with something I heard on tv, and what I think is common sense, is stop giving the guy media attention and maybe he’ll go away!! he’s looking for attention!! further more, it’s high time somebody in the Christian world gets angry enough to speak out when these atrocities occur: when the terry joneses pop up—crying “look at me, look at me!”; when so called Christian cult groups picket outside military funerals applauding the death of gay soldiers who “are only getting what they deserve;” when people like George tiller are gunned down in cold blood, without the most basic research being done into what their actual function is, before the judge, jury and executioner, attack to kill. the silence of the body of Christ tells the world that it approves of these horrendous acts perpetrated in its name, when, most likely, that’s hardly true…but think a minute….how do most of us react to muslims who never speak out when horrors are committed by muslim terrorists…do we not assume, then, that quiet muslims agree with the atrocities?

It occurs to me that precisely what you think the media should be doing is what we—Christianity—is attempting--ignoring these fringe characters and charlatans and hoping they will go away.  Interestingly enough, when we have a cause, we are not shy to stand up and shout our opinions, to try to change the laws of the land to reflect our morality, to turn one another into a panic over the “appalling state of our decadent nation.”  We are so good at creating an atmosphere of panic, and perhaps Terry Jones and his companions are simply reflecting our attitudes, applying our techniques in places where they do not fit. 

Mostly I'm furious with this Terry Jones guy who gives expression to a judgmental violent response to Islam and dares to call it Christian.  These misdirected crusaders whom our leaders seem to ignore do not represent anything that the Jesus of the Bible ever did or said.

Okay, now--your turn, what do you think about all of this?  No fisticuffs, but everything else is fair game!! please join in:

And so we begin...i'm just throwing out the nugget of a dialogue. it may annoy some people and make some people scratch their heads...if i'm  very lucky, one or two of you may even be slightly amused.

no matter...the point here, whatever we (or you, hopefully) throw out, is to make the rest of us think and respond...honestly, and no holds barred--but, of course, respectfully, as well. Here's our first:

elh says she has her ups and downs like anyone, and even gets mad at god, sometimes…she’ll spend a bit of time letting him know what’s on her mind, and then asking for his forgiveness…

what??? I asked are you asking for forgiveness for… why don’t YOU forgive GOD, if he was the wrongdoer? "Because," she said, "He CAN’T do wrong!! So, forgive him for what?  That’s not an option…and I need to be forgiven for hanging on to my anger, for not letting it go"

so, here’s the question…is god capable of wrongdoing? what, exactly is the nature of god?

okay, i'm just here to let you know i'm hoping to be open for conversation, now...you have something to talk about, come on by!! we want to talk about it...i'll be sending out emails to let people know that I'll be keeping a watchful eye on our blog and Ethel will as she can, as well...please come see us!!

November 6, 2010

hi! I'm ellen-- the lower-cased bold one from florida and sometimes new york!

Hi! I'm Ethel. I'm simply "arial" but my cases are mixed. O yes, and I live in Silicon Valley at the south end of San Francisco Bay. No matter how you look at us, we come from different worlds.

if you understand understatement, you should have no trouble at all telling us apart!! I’m the calm, sensible one…

Ha! Yes, the delusional one! But it is true, our worlds color our thinking and our ways of expressing ourselves, but we DO have much in common.

husband, kids, grandkids—all separate, of course! but lots of shared friends we’ve picked up along the way..

We're both writers and dearly love to pick one another's brains, especially on controversial issues

that's what they call being dialoguists. we've collected tens of thousands of e-mail pages over the past decade, with our discussions on every topic from faith to friendship…and on further up the alphabet…

Religiously, we grew up in very different boxes.

i'm what they call a secular jew, jewish by birth, and by choice, but not necessarily by anything I know or that’s been included in my education. I never went to Hebrew school, or hardly even synagogue until I married someone a little more into it than i…even then I managed to stay pretty well ignorant of most things religious until ethel came along, i rarely even thought about god—I felt that if my life reflected the golden rule, “do unto others…” and a fair sampling of the 10 commandments, I’d probably be doing alright…

And I came from an evangelical Christian background. God is the very center of my life. All I do and say and think I relate to Him. I'm on an adventure to learn the difference between all I've heard in church and all that God has to say.

When we got together just about 10 years ago, now, it seemed to each of us that we had an incredibly unique opportunity…to hear how someone outside saw us when they were willing to be deadly honest, and to explain our ideas and feelings, and thoughts to someone who could and would hear them, absorb them and discuss them as intellectual concepts, without threatening or being threatened by the spectre of conversion…naturally, we have “illusions”of grandeur…and we want to have the incredible things we’ve learned and seen, spread as far as the world is wide; we want people to have the chance to know what we’ve come to know. We’re excited to share all that we can, and all that others are willing to get into it with us!

well, look, now…we know we’re not going to change the world, but if we could put a little NICK in it…!!

WE think the way to do this is to cut through the superficialities that separate us and get to know one another…COMMUNICATE…the subject is not nearly as important as what we have to say about it…when ethel and I began the one simple promise we made each other—even though we were virtual strangers; all we had in common was our love of words and of communication. and so we promised each other simple HONESTY…and, of course, RESPECT…

sometimes a question would be asked that a “white lie” would’ve felt much less scary in the answering…but it wouldn’t have been true…at first that was hard because neither of us knew what honesty would bring. and we found that if it was brought gently, what it brought was two people closer together each time they had to jump out of that tree and hoped to be caught! we no longer worry whether hands will be there to catch us…we now know it, as we know the sun will come up each day, whether we see it or not…

That’s true, and the kinds of topics we’ve talked about –often over and over again, have been politics, crime, religious hypocrisy, as well as the all important raising of kids and every now and again Ellen needs to bring up the subject of rice pudding, simply because it’s close to her heart…

well, you know that man cannot live by…oh, well, I guess that doesn’t work in this discussion does it…but rice pudding is a very important topic, unless there’s no raisins, I’m thinking…sorry…carry on…

Just ignore her when she goes off like that…we’ll try for a slightly higher plane. And what we really hope is that YOU will open up the discussions…some of them, most of them; whatever you like; we’ll follow your lead…if you can think of it, or if we can—like, why do Christians have so much trouble trusting God?

like, why do they feel they need to “convince” god of the rightness of their positions by means of fervent prayer meetings, and other extreme beseechments…?

anyway, I think we’ve told you everything you need to know…join us, please! let us know what’s on your mind, and we’ll see if we can get you as excited about all this as we are.

after a short time you’ll know us by our voices, and hopefully, we’ll know you by yours…welcome to our world!!!

E&e

* * *

For starters, here's the first dialogue we want to share with you. We kind of thought if you're going to join us on the rim of our boxes, we might do well to talk first about what those boxes are. So, here are our descriptions... read them and then tell us how you see boxes--what are the things that have YOU boxed in, in your life?

Boxes are basic beliefs, paradigms,
philosophies and prejudices--
the baggage we each bring with us
to our lives-- and dialogues.

boxes are confining structures
in which we're fed rules that we are to follow,
most, blindly...
we can't see out of them,
so there's no point in asking questions...
just do what we're told.

Boxes give us structure
and shape our thinking and decision making processes;
provide a sense of security in a volatile world,
and shelter when we’re
pushed to a point
where we can’t handle challenges and confrontations.

They deaden our curiosity while feeding our fears of the unknown.
They deliver us from our passion to ask questions--
They narrow our viewpoints, and keep us from taking risks.

As we gain new confidence--mature,
and move out into new frontiers of thought and action,
boxes tend to collapse.

“When God collapses our box walls, He turns them into dance floors.”
Author Unknown

So?
nu?